Re: Marching in formations for attack and defence

[John Richards]

Title: Re: Marching in formations for attack and defence

Hi Henry

I'm confused as to whether you are referring to marching to battle (i.e., manoeuvering having formed the battle formation - "Ordnung machen", as referred to in contemporary sources) or just simply getting the troops from A to B. If you refer to battle manoeuvers, I'm sure you're correct - you would have to carry your weapon (pike) and deal with it, also you would have to manoeuver in formation. However, my impression from reading the contemporary accounts of Grandson is that most manoeuvering was relatively disorganised. Local contingents arrived in disorganised bands, set up camp all over the area the night before the battle , struck camp at various times and then advanced higgeldy-piggeldy through all the lines of least resistance, only forming (no doubt with an enormous amount of pushing and shoving - "quick, you've got a full harness, get up the front!) a square when the full Burgundian force appeared. Makes them incredibly fast and flexible and for someone like Charles the Bold, practising strategic offense and tactical defence, it must have been like trying to stop a mass of ants with matchsticks.

I've practised doing this with large numbers and it works surprisingly well. As long as you form up to start with, so men know roughly where to stand, you can then run through a forest in single file, forming up again on the other side without too much bother. Incidentally, it's also the only possible way, in view of the terrain at both Grandson and Murten. Contemporary accounts of Murten state that when the advancing pike square got stuck against the Grünhag at Murten, large numbers simply peeled off and climbed the ravine on the right flank. Try doing that in formation!! They no doubt formed up again at the top and charged the guns in an organised line - not difficult if you've practised it all your life.

In flat terrain, with few obstacles, you simply rounded up the handgunners/crossbowmen from the various local contingents, shoved them up the front, got everybody with a pike to stand in a square and put all the oldies/stragglers etc. in the Nachhut. It took the Eidgenossen hours to achieve at Murten, cos everybody wanted to be at the front (more rich pickings like Grandson sir?). The Zürich contingent were so keen to get in on the booty, they marched 150kms in 3 days (and certainly not in formation and probably not carrying their pikes - far easier to stick them in the wagons which could easily keep up). However, once you had formed up in front of the enemy, it was vital to keep the formation intact until contact - hence the Schilling illustrations.

Salute 

John 

am 5.5.2003 22:41 Uhr schrieb Henry Landis unter landis1702-at-yahoo.co.uk:

I refer to some of the illustrations in various texts, Schilling as I own a copy. You see bodies of men marching with pike and armour converging on the field. Hand gunners and Crossbows ahead, Pike and Hallbards with the colours.

As far as marching with pikes, I must refer to later ECW references, where pikemen marched day after day in formation with their pikes and when they stopped they stopped where they were, eat what provisions they had and were ready to march on. Pikes in the ECW period at least tended to be trailed (ie dragged) thus the saying "He trailed his pike for the King".

Taking the formations that you commonly find in the manuscripts, the forhut are mainly made up of hand gunners and crossbow men while the large pike formation is made up of the main body of troops (Pike Halbard Colours Music).

My conjecture is also based on an experience with the ECWS where the regiments (20 to 30 Pike and Similar numbers of musket) were lined up for a general advance. All of the columns of pike 3 or 4 men wide marched forward merging into one lage block of 300-400 troops. It was very noticeable that you stayed in your own columns and followed your fellows. However the entire block charged their pikes and presented a single front. Again, when obstacles were encountered the block opened and flowed around the obstacle and rejoined on the other side.

If you had large woods or other large obstacles, most commanders would tend to take the formation past the woods and fill the woods with hand gunners or crossbow men. Woods do provide a secure flank  and prevent gunnery from enfilading or cavalry from attacking the flank.

I certainly feel that units would march out of camp wherever they were on the eve of the battle and march by parallel routes were possible and join up into the larger formations on the battle field.

The point is that you do not have to march all the men in the best armour to form the front ranks in one column and wheel them into line followed similarly for the other columns wheeling to form the 3rd and subsequent lines.

What you have is contingents in column marching in the formation they are going to fight in.  the first on the field march toward the enemy as directed. The following contingents form up on the left or right of the first column as directed or pre arranged and as soon as they are there they can begin their advance.

What you have is a very flexible and rapid to deploy formation, which would appear to correspond with the way the swiss fought during this period.

Sorry for the late night waffle, but I will send references when I locate them.


love and stuff.

Henry

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